Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Fitter Builder Player.
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My name is Matt Wainwright.
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You guys know me from the Chasing Daylight podcast here on this channel, Joined by my good friend Roars.
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How are you doing today?
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sir, oh spectacular.
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We dodged a hurricane, so it's been sunshine and bluebirds.
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Hurricanes can be a little nasty man.
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The other night we were recording, we were sending our well wishes to everybody and there was some damage, of course, because you know you get high winds hitting the coast.
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It's going to happen and a little storm surge, but all in all not nearly as terrible as what took place a couple weeks ago.
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So glad everybody down there in the FL is okay.
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Yeah, glad everybody down there in the FL is okay.
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Yeah, still going to put something together through Roars Golf Co to raise some money for those affected.
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And I don't know.
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We found that patent online for the sound waves that can move storms.
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Might do some investing in that too.
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It was so funny.
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I was like what the hell is he sending me?
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There's so many there's so many crazy things out there.
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Yeah, Well, what's crazy?
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What's really crazy about it is that, you know, I I actually shared it on social and um.
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Some friends of mine did too, and and then the us patent and trademark office ended up pulling it off their site.
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Whoa, that was.
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That was a little eerie like oh crap, we forgot about that yeah yeah, oh man.
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Well, you guys have hurricane warnings.
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We've had a heat wave.
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It's finally starting to cool off in ve October.
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Golf weather is finally coming, thank goodness.
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I was out at Las Vegas Country Club today doing some fittings for Callaway and, wow, weather was amazing.
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This morning Sun got out.
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It got a little hot, but you know it's okay, I'm used to the heat, so it doesn't bother me that much.
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It's just it's going to be nice to finally get some good weather that we've been waiting for forever.
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So you will be able to tell.
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This week Roar sounds a little bit more present.
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He's got some upgrades to his equipment, so you sound great.
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You sound great.
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Yeah, I'll tell you what.
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When you got clubs in your bag that fits your game, you kind of fall back in love with golf.
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Yeah.
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So this week we decided you know, this is our first real episode and we were pondering a couple different things to talk about had a couple people reach out about some few things.
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Jeremy was asking about tour issue stuff on this week's show.
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So uh, I told him, you know, hey, we may get into that.
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Um, you know, if we, if we have time today, um, but we, we settled on combo sets.
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Uh, this would be more in a fitters perspective of the fitter builder player.
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Uh moniker for us, uh, combo sets.
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Why don't you, why don't you uh let people know what a combo set is and why someone should go to a combo set, and then we'll get into why they shouldn't get into a combo set and uh, what they should be playing yeah.
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So combo set.
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There's really, there's not really a here's the reason.
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There's a lot of reasons that you might combo a set.
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A lot of times it's kind of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
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So you know, folks are comboing because they want the long iron forgiveness or as much forgiveness throughout the bag as they can possibly get.
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But you know, the better players especially want to be a little more precise, be able to control the ball a little better.
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The spin, you know, fight it, work it.
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And some of those you know borderline game improvement clubs.
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You just can't work the ball like you can with a, with a blade or or a cavity back.
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You know more of that players club.
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And then, you know, a lot of folks think about combo in a set.
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They all they're thinking about is irons, but at the same time, um, you know you combo hybrids and irons guilty you know, I'm sure we'll.
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Yeah, I'm sure we'll dive into that some too.
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I actually have a hybrid in my bag for the first time since like 2010, um well I, I played this past weekend and uh, I was wasn't hitting my five iron.
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Well, I was hitting it okay but not well and that's like my 175 180 club.
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Uh, not a big hitter for those uh listening in, uh, not not somebody that striped it crazy long off the tee.
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So, uh, I, that's, that's my 175 180 club and I just it wasn't hitting it well and it.
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You know, the reason I pulled my four iron and went to a seven wood was because easier to hit, higher launching angle, a little bit more spin, able to hold greens from 200 to 205.
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It's like my 195 to 205 club right now, and then my 6-iron is my 170-ish club.
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But I was like, so I was concerned.
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Like you know, I'm really struggling to hit this club consistently good.
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So today, in between fittings, told julian, I said hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna grab a five hybrid and, uh, let's see what happens.
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And uh, wow, I don't know if it's because I've been working on my swing and it's a little bit refined, but, holy crap, high, long spin, I'm like good grief.
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So it was the, the five, uh, hybrid, the ai smoke, and it's the, the hl, the high launch, and uh, I was hitting it way higher than my five iron.
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I was hitting it just as long, if not a little longer, and with way more spin than my five iron.
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So I was like that was an easy fix.
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So, uh, yeah, I, the five iron's gone, I'm it's, it's yoked.
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The, the hybrid got ordered and as soon as it gets here, five iron, you've been banished to the corner.
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So that's my little, my little combo set.
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But you know, like what you said, a lot of guys want the forgiveness of, of the, the players.
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Uh, you, uh, you know game improvement, players, irons.
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And then, once you get up into the, the, you know the seven, eight, nine, the shorter clubs where the workability is that, where you're talking to workability factor with those?
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Are you talking more on the bottom?
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end of the bag with the four, five and six.
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Well, it's, uh, I mean it can really be any scenario out there.
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You know, I mean, um, most of the sets that I combo, uh, you switch it to seven iron.
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You know it's, um, the folks that really have no business playing a players club and just insist or probably made their mind up before they got to the fitting bay um, that they're going to combo their irons.
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You know I'll swap it at the eight iron.
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You know, just to give them a little more forgiveness than that seven iron, though you know, like me, a little more um, and then you know, top of the bag, same thing.
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I mean it's, you don't have to just stop at two irons.
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You know you could, especially with, like, um, you know, for example, callowaway's Apex line, before the 200 and 300 came out, we were doing a lot of, a lot of combo sets that had Apex pro, you know, three or four iron, and then the CB five through six or seven and and the MBs to round it out.
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So, um, yeah, you can go three wayway.
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You know, strixon also.
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Strixon actually has a combo set builder on their website and they've got the utility irons, the ZX4, zx5, zx7.
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Is that right?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So they've got it right on their website there is?
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is the comboing new?
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Because you're I'm hearing a lot more of it.
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You know a lot more people are talking about it.
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You hear a lot.
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You see a lot more people with with mixed sets in their bags.
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Is it something new that is kind of taken over, or is it?
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Has it been around for a while and and people are just now starting to get word of it and wanting to try it out?
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no, it's, it's definitely been around.
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I mean, it's been around a long time.
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I know back in the 90s, you know some of the tour guys were playing you know a couple different brands because you know back then, um, adams used to be real popular.
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Trying to think of some other brands, wilson had quite a stake in the game, always had Callaway and TaylorMade and Titleist and whatnot.
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But some of the guys would have their own combo set because, for example, adams was making more forgiving clubs or Callaway was, and they'd play the longer irons with a more forgiving club and then play the Wilson Blades or the Hogan Blades down in the scoring clubs.
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It's definitely gotten more trendy.
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There's a lot more people wanting to do it, asking about it.
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When I first started club fitting now, let's say when I restarted club fitting cause I first started in the late nineties, um, but when I restarted club fitting, you know we didn't do a lot of combo sets and nobody ever, you know, came to the tailor-made tent and asked, hey, I'm interested in a 770 and a cb or mc combo set.
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They come to the tent and just wanted to hit whatever and then, as I got out of working or, you know, doing demo days and fitting events.
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You know it's towards the end of that portion of my career they folks would come and say, hey, I want to look at combo in 790s and 770s and then, um, here in the fitting bay at shell bay, I get folks all the time that you know walk in, say, or you know they'll reach out before they even book their fitting and say, hey, I'm interested in in combo in the what was the most recent one?
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Uh, it was actually 770s and MCs, you know the new ones from Taylor made.
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Yeah, do you go okay?
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Or do you go tell me why, or do you wait for the fitting to ask questions like that?
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No, you know we, yeah, I mean I get them hitting balls and and we have a conversation about it.
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You know we.
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You know, and really, and that's that's the one reason that I feel like I'll always have a career as a club fitter, even with AI and computers and spreadsheets and all that kind of stuff that you got to fit the person to what they're trying to achieve, and that requires a conversation.
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Um, you know, the one of the best examples I have of that was when I was working for TaylorMade and I was doing an event at uh, I don't remember if it was PGA tour super store, golf galaxy.
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But um, they, uh, they warned me when I got there that my first fitting was a guy who comes in every other day, hits something new, never buys anything.
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And I fit him and he bought a driver and the store manager came up and said what, how in the world did you sell him a club?
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Yeah, yeah, and and it was all because I had a conversation with him, you know.
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I asked him what are you trying to achieve?
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And he says I've never been able to hit a draw.
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I want, want to hit a draw.
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And so, with these head adjustments and the way the heads adjust and they have different centers of gravity and MOI throughout different ones.
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You can help somebody hit a draw for sure, absolutely.
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Of course they're 12 degrees across the ball, they're not going to hit a draw.
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Your draw is going to go really really left.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so so you know, he said I want to hit a draw and I, you know, got him to hit a draw and you know, and the you know no offense to anybody listening that might be a fitter at Superstore Galaxy or one of the box stores, but most of those folks are just trained to hit numbers.
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You know, get them 12 degrees of launch, 2200 spin, you know, and the guy couldn't draw that club, you know, it was something that actually spun a little bit more and, you know, had some draw bias, add some loft, close the face and and he was hitting a little baby draw, never done it before and bought two of them.
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It's amazing how you can with today's tech, in in the fitting or in, and how you can manipulate the heads the max fast.
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That Callaway has Super, super draw bias and it's funny when you see somebody that is playing a club that's not set up like that swings that club and they're like whoa, it's like yeah, there's, there's yeah and you know, then you can.
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From there you can tweak it, you know, and get it and and find out.
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You know, okay, maybe you don't need this one, let's go back to the max, or you know, there's the max.
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There's so many different options now to to dial in players specifically to what their swing.
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But with, with combo sets, what?
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What should people be interested?
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What?
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What should they be looking for with their, with their game, if a combo set is right for them?
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Cause I'm sure there's some people out there that are like, do I need a combo set?
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Some people like, yes, I want a combo set and you don't need it.
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So at what point during a fitting process, would you tell somebody hey, we're gonna, we're gonna mix this up, we're gonna go, we're gonna combo this set and and why does that?
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At that point do you do that?
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Does that make sense?
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I ramble too much yeah, yeah, no, I mean, that makes sense.
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There again is there's just so many variables and so many reasons that you would combo.
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You know, most of the time, I mean just honestly, most of the time, I'm comboing a set because somebody came in deciding they wanted mira.
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You know mb 101s and they have no business hitting them.
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Or you know they want yeah, yeah, um, and so I can at least talk them into.
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Hey, why don't we get throw a little more forgiving five iron in the bag, and you know, and then kind of slide in the.
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I'm gonna combo it down at the seven iron and and um, you know they, you know they appreciate that.
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So I mean, a lot of times it's making the person happy.
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You know which.
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You know my job as a fitter is to put the best clubs in their bag and always give them my recommendation.
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But you know people can be stubborn and it's their money.
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And if they want to, if they want just have got to have something in the bag.
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You know, let's, let's work around it and uh, and get some of it in the bag and um, you know, the big thing for me, though, is it was probably consistency.
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You know, if you maybe your swing is not the best, but you hit the ball in the same spot all the time, you know, then that's, that can kind of play into where you want more forgiveness.
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Obviously everybody wants forgiveness, wants all the forgiveness you can get.
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You know the guys here are giving me hell for playing the calloway tie fusions right now, but, um, I know where the ball's going.
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You know yeah and uh and then.
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So if you're not real consistent, combo set could be, could be good.
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You know, like if you're around the greens or you know somebody's just loves their clubs, loves their swing from, let's say, 140 in and knows what's happening with the ball and where it's going.
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But on the longer clubs struggle with dispersion or whatever it is, then let's look at a more forgiving club, and sometimes it's.
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I'm not always talking somebody out of a full set of players' clubs as much as I'm sometimes talking somebody into throwing some more forgiving clubs in the top end of the bag.
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Yeah, it's.
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I love this ideology of making the game easier.
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Right, there's so much tech out there now with shafts and heads and how they're built and game improvement irons that don't look like game improvement irons.
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Finally, a lot of brands are realizing that.
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You know, golfers us golfers are really finicky people and we want our shit to look cool, and a shovel on the end of a shaft is not what they want to see.
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Uh.
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So, um, taking clubs and making them more forgiving and also making them have the appearance of a player's iron, uh is a big trend going on right now calloway's paradigm line.
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I know calloway, so that's why I'm talking about you, rose.
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You could talk about other clubs that are maybe doing this because you see them more, but the AI Smoke Paradigm irons they don't look like the Rogue irons, you know they are vastly different.
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They have a clean look to them.
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Yeah, there's some offset to them, of course, because it is a game improvement club, but much different than going back five years.
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Know the um, oh, yeah yeah, top, top line's a big one.
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You know the top lines are shrinking.
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Yes, nobody wants to look like said at a shovel.
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You don't want a big, old, fat top line.
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You don't want to see, you don't want to see the back of the club sticking out you know when you forward press, you know, and uh, and you know, to speak to some other brands like mizuno, um, and they're 241, 243, 245s, like you've those, like the 245 to 241.
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Those are completely different clubs but if you, you know, got paired with somebody that's got a set and they're riding with you on the cart, you got to get up close to figure out which one they have.
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Same thing with with strixon, I mean, these, these clubs like the zx4, you know, is, um, it's got a cavity, it looks like cavity back but it it's a super forgiving iron and you kind of got you know.
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Same thing if you don't have the trained eye, you don't know whether you're playing.
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They're playing the same thing Brooks Koepka's got, or if they're playing, you know the little more forgiving version of it.
00:18:44.522 --> 00:19:06.686
So yeah, that's something I was going to speak to a minute ago was, even if the club's not the perfect club for you and I see this a lot in putters but same thing with combo and irons and whatnot If you're excited about hitting that club because it looks good to you, you know, for whatever reason it is, but if you're excited about hitting that club, you're going to hit it more.
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It means you're going to practice.
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It means you're going to be excited to get out there.
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You know golf is so between the ears that if you like looking down at something, you're going to be holding it a lot more than if you hate it.
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Yeah, dan, I just built this set for Dan.
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It's Mizuno's, he's got the 2-2-1s and wedge through six yeah, wedge through six, and then the 4-5 is the 2-2-3s.
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Does that look right?
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It's kind of blurry.
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Yeah, yeah, and he's super excited to see it.
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But he went with, you know, a more forgiving club at the four and five and he's a highly skilled player.
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Highly skilled player, he's a plus two, um, so it's.
00:19:54.810 --> 00:20:12.763
It's funny how I don't know if it's got me being around guys that are getting older, that are growing older with me, but I'm starting to see more and more people start, you know, those clubs that are harder to hit are going to a club that's easier to hit and enjoying golf so much more because of it.
00:20:13.767 --> 00:20:14.208
Yeah, oh yeah.
00:20:14.208 --> 00:20:15.530
And the pros are doing it now too.
00:20:15.530 --> 00:20:23.051
You know, there's there's more woods, there's more hybrids and bags, there's more forgiving clubs and bags, and they're playing for money.
00:20:23.051 --> 00:20:30.113
I'm sure most of us do too, but it's their career, it's their paycheck.
00:20:30.113 --> 00:20:40.688
I think it was Golf Magazine been talking about Freddie Couples and his six or seven woods and hybrids.
00:20:40.688 --> 00:20:47.810
Yeah, I mean, you got to play what fits your game, not your ego.
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:50.685
Yeah, and that is hard.
00:20:50.685 --> 00:20:52.049
That is hard.
00:20:52.049 --> 00:21:04.993
And I tell you what find a demo day, find a fitting day, go to the golf store and look at the loft on your lowest iron in the bag.
00:21:04.993 --> 00:21:13.326
Mine was a 5 iron and let's see, I have it right here, because we were looking at it, it's a 26 degree club.
00:21:13.326 --> 00:21:24.194
And so we took the 5 hybrid, which was 21, I think 21, 22, and bumped it up to 24.
00:21:24.194 --> 00:21:27.328
So it was 22, 21, 23,.
00:21:27.328 --> 00:21:38.575
We bumped it up to so a little bit stronger lofted, but I could not believe how well I was hitting it, how high it was going and the spin.
00:21:38.575 --> 00:21:46.393
It was incredible and I was like I hit probably 10 shots with my Adele 5-iron.
00:21:46.393 --> 00:21:50.170
Maybe four were like solid.
00:21:50.170 --> 00:21:52.265
I hit 10 with the hybrid.
00:21:52.265 --> 00:21:59.387
Nine were solid and the one that wasn't was a really good miss.
00:22:00.609 --> 00:22:10.320
So I mean just the consistent and that's that is where my game's biggest weakness is right now is my approach shots from, you know, 200, 160 to 200.
00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:15.692
It's just, it's weak and uh, found something that is going to help me in that regard.
00:22:15.692 --> 00:22:24.527
So, and you know what, if I find out that I hit the six hybrid better than I hit my six iron, I'm going to a six.
00:22:24.527 --> 00:22:26.030
I don't care.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:27.826
Yeah, what is in the bag?
00:22:28.146 --> 00:22:35.647
is like Julian's got this great thing that he says you know, when we we've been fitting people and, uh, there come.
00:22:35.647 --> 00:22:39.007
Oh, I don't want to hit that, I don't you know, i't, you know.
00:22:39.047 --> 00:22:43.909
Hey, when you're sitting down after the round going over your score, does it say what club you hit?
00:22:43.909 --> 00:22:46.981
Is there a section to mark what club you hit?
00:22:46.981 --> 00:22:49.869
No, no, there's just a section where you total up your score.
00:22:49.869 --> 00:22:51.882
Yeah, it doesn't matter what the hell you hit.
00:22:51.882 --> 00:22:54.628
What matters is that box at the end with your number on it.
00:22:54.628 --> 00:22:57.022
You know, is it lower than the person you were playing?
00:22:57.022 --> 00:22:58.607
Yeah, okay, that that's what matters.
00:22:58.607 --> 00:23:02.880
It doesn't matter if you hit a, you know a four hybrid oh, absolutely.
00:23:03.340 --> 00:23:04.064
Yeah, that's uh.
00:23:04.064 --> 00:23:09.862
I mean, I think it was my dad when I was a kid used to say they don't draw pictures on the scorecard.
00:23:11.787 --> 00:23:20.422
Yep it's not like baseball, where you can, you know, it is like baseball line drive, bloops, single, both, the both they hit in the in the scorebook.
00:23:20.422 --> 00:23:23.027
Yeah, it doesn't matter how you get there.
00:23:23.027 --> 00:23:28.644
So, um so, and with with combo sets, like you were saying, with hybrid you can.
00:23:28.644 --> 00:23:34.022
You can combo a set with hybrids and fairy woods.
00:23:34.022 --> 00:23:37.413
You can combo a set with irons and hybrids.
00:23:37.413 --> 00:23:40.362
You can combo sets with two different types of irons.
00:23:40.362 --> 00:23:46.304
You said you can combo sets with three different types of irons, so on on.
00:23:46.304 --> 00:23:53.663
For me fitting, we have a seven iron that we use and we we have the hybrids and everything that we can we can figure out.
00:23:53.663 --> 00:24:01.460
Do you mainly fit there with just one iron or do you have out?