311: An Interview with Lance Reader from Krank Golf

Transcript

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Hey everybody, welcome back to a special episode of the Chasing Daylight podcast.

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It's been a while since we've had a one-on-one interview and I was excited when the folks at Crank reached out and said hey, we'd like to have our guy, Lance Reeder, come on.

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So, Lance, welcome to the show, Thank you.

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Thank you, it's going to be fun.

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Yeah so Crank Golf has been around for a while.

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A lot of people know the name from Long Drive and that's where your guys' foundation is from Going through a little bit of changes and kind of going away from Long Drive and rebranding, I guess you could say, the ideology behind Crank Golf.

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So why don't you tell everybody first off how you got started with Crank and what's going on with the company?

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First off, how you got started with Crank and what's going on with the company.

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Well, I mean we started around 2002.

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I was a professional long drive golfer.

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You know, I ran, I owned health clubs.

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It was, I think, when I got involved with long drive in general.

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I think it was my first midlife and I wanted to just have a little bit of fun.

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And I reached out and found a long drive guy and I hit the ball a long way.

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But every long driver that comes out to compete is usually the longest guy in their group.

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But they kind of come out to see if they're really that long.

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And so I got involved in the sport of long drive and I started winning and I was pretty good I mean I consider myself one of the top guys at the time and, um, little by little, uh, it became a huge addiction.

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I mean, people that are involved in long drive really get addicted to it and, um, the adrenaline's crazy.

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The biggest problem that we had was that all the drivers broke, they broke and they broke.

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So you know, the shafts broke, the heads broke, but the beginning of long drive it was the long drive was really the first golf related competition that went to the bigger heads that moved into the 450cc stuff, going into the cup facing or the, the beta titaniums and to go bigger.

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You had to go with better material.

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But the material and the heads that they were making were breaking so much that I was like, um, we can't manage this because you're breaking a head.

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You're breaking one or two heads every time you practice.

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And so the companies that were out then were smaller companies that nobody really knew about, like Alpha, bing, smt, zyder, some of these incredible companies that came out with some of the most high performance heads.

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They were far and above Callaway, tatum and Titus and Ping at the time, because those companies hadn't gone into that 400, 430, 450cc range.

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And so I knew that we were breaking a lot of heads and I thought you know, if these smaller companies can make heads, why don't I try to do it?

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It was just an interesting thing.

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I met a guy that, just like my brother today in Malaysia, who knew a contact with some factories in China, and I felt like it was just going to be a fun experiment that we can go out and try to do some stuff and and try to make a driver head that didn't break.

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And we came out the El Diablo driver and it didn't break.

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It was.

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It was incredibly durable, and we implemented some of the thoughts.

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It was just, I'm not an engineer, but I I'm smart enough to know that when something's breaking on a weld, you probably should make the weld a little stronger and the body rigidity of some of the stuff that we worked on, and the cool part was the factory that I really have been.

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They're like family to me now over 20 years that they let me come in and work and they let me learn years that they let me come in and work and they let me learn.

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And so we came up with a design that had some unique features like cup facing, dual welding, using certain types of beta titanium, creating body rigidity, all the things more bulge and roll, which is which is where the company that really pushed the bulge and roll curve, which really helps you hit a ball straighter, and also it helped with durability, and so when we made that driver, it won five world championships and by making it so it didn't break, we actually made it hit better.

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It was crazy, and so the spin rates and the directional control we put in place were really, really good, and so, um, that was the beginning of crank, and from that point on we said look okay, there's 200 long drivers in the whole world.

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We're not going to make any money doing this selling to those guys, because they want everything free to begin with yeah and so.

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So we made a playing driver at the time of the el diablo, so we made the the four, five, six degree that we use in the world of long drive golf.

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But we also made a seven, five, nine, ten, five, twelve in the el diablo that we used regular golf.

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And so we we have always sold regular playing drivers on top of the fact that we're selling long drive clubs.

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And so one thing led to the next, to the next, and now our current driver is our 18th version driver that we've created over the last 22 years.

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And so long drive's fun.

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We've won 36 World Long Drive Championships.

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We dominate that sport.

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We're not as involved in it now because during covid uh, you know, golf channel quit and sold it and it's a complicated sport.

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There's not that many people doing it and it's really hard to run and, um, it's hard to find 500 yards of flat grass that don't have help cars driving by, you know, and so, but I love long drive.

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At COVID we really, we really made a concerted effort when long drive pretty much died to to approach the, the world of golf, more effectively, and that's really when we really changed into the multiple face thickness which is really the world we live in today.

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Yeah, I remember.

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I was.

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I was working at Las Vegas national course here in town and they had the Remax long drive before before the las vegas invitational and it was on the, the first hole, which is long par five, and that was like my first experience seeing long drivers and seeing guys with, you know, 46 inch, 47 inch long drivers just beating the crap out of the ball.

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And it was.

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I was impressed.

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That was the, the, the, the Zubek Cause, that was his name.

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Yeah, that was his, that was his era.

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And then then you guys have, or not you guys?

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But then long drive they.

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They went out to Paiute and teed it off in the desert and hit to the range.

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They went out to the speedway and were in the stands hitting to the grass infield, go out to.

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They got to Mesquite and hit from one soccer field to the other soccer field.

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So I mean it's entertaining to watch, but you're right, it's not the easiest event to put on as far as spectators go.

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It's really hard for spectators to see the ball fly.

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It's really hard to produce a ball that's flying at 220 miles an hour and going 450 yards.

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I mean, it's a really difficult sport and there's just so few people in the world that can actually bring it at that speed that it's really limited and it's really not golf.

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They use drivers, but you know, in the game of golf there's far more through the game than just your driver.

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And, um, I think that's the hardest part.

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I really believed that when I first started crank that if I could go out and win two or three or four world championships, I could prove that my driver's the best in the world and that it hits further and straighter.

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And who wouldn't believe me?

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I mean, we're not just dealing with the Jason Zubex and the Tim Burks and the Justin James is the top guys and the fastest guys.

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We're also dealing with the 50s, 55, 60s, 65, 70 year old guys and girls.

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And when you're winning those age brackets, there should be more relevance to saying, hey, you know what these drivers are really special If they hit straight and long, why can't you use them in golf?

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And they were.

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You know, we were always conforming on usj, but not a lot of people knew that and not a lot of people look at long drive as a golf.

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I often wonder.

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I said, you know these guys are hitting drivers, not hockey sticks, right, but but you know, and and and I think that the thing that's remarkable with crank is that we've won all these world championships and it.

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You know I'm not, I'm not sitting in my yacht in the Caribbean, um, it means that, no, you're not, no, I'm not.

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I'm like I accomplished every goal but that one, but um, but in general, it's like you know, to, to.

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To get regular golfers to understand the value of our driver, they have to be able to respect the fact that it's used in the game of golf and you know, getting Bryson to shamble like we did, which is, you know, just crazy, but you know, getting him to prove that our drivers are really, really special has helped us a lot and I think we've come a long way in 22 years.

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It takes that long, apparently, when you have the majors that have so much power and money.

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All right, we'll get into Bryson in a few.

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But where did the name come from?

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What made you go with Crank so I?

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think at the beginning my gosh, it's just so crazy.

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I was hitting another brand.

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I mean in 2004, I set the world record of 526 yards with another brand and Crank wasn't around.

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But again the drivers broke, broke, broke right.

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So I started selling those, doing charity golf tournaments, and so then I thought, well, I probably should make one of these, and so I went to the company that I was making them with.

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I said, hey, do you mind if we just relabel it and change the metal on the face?

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I've been doing a little research.

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And they said yes.

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And then I said okay, I got to pick a name.

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So I was going to go with Amp Golf or Crank Golf, and Amp golf was taken and crank golf Wasn't.

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That's how I did it, simple simple I like the, I like the, the.

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The KR has been, you know, you can, it's, it's.

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I mean, I have one of your old drivers here and that's six the it's.

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You know the it's KG is on there.

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It's, it's, it's funny.

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It's good.

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Yeah, it's, it's been.

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You know, the truth is it's been a ride and we enjoy it and we continue to go and, you know, make the top product All right.

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So let's get into why it's different.

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It's, you know, callaway, taylormade, all the, all the ping, all the big brands.

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They have their way of putting their clubs together you chose a different route um and and we talked about this in our pre-interview uh, which is very interesting to me.

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Uh, what?

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What is different that you guys do that the other manufacturers aren't doing, to why your stuff does not break?

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I mean, when your number one purpose of making a driver is to make one that doesn't break that guy's swinging 150 miles an hour, you really have to look at what that is.

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What kind of manufacturing style would even allow that?

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Because, think about it, callaway, tatum and Titus and Ping and Cobra cobra and everybody no one ever really tested in that 150 swing speed range.

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We but that was all that was.

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Our only purpose was to make one that didn't break in the 150 swing speed range, and so we knew that your cut face forging staying 100, titanium, um, you know, using certain metals, uh, certain uh welding techniques, um, creating more body rigidity so that the body didn't expand and pop off the crown when it's carbon, you know all these type of things.

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Um, I mean, remember, this was very organic to begin with.

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I mean nobody knew what they were doing, and so I basically went in and said, okay, I believe this, this, this and this.

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And then my factory came in and said, well, I think we can try this, we can try that.

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And so basically what we learned was, if you go cup face forging which means you're cupping the face right, that allows for the weld to not be on the face and then if you create more bulge and roll more curvature in the face, it gives more durability.

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If you use the right type of I mean the beta titanium's we're using right now, it's like our seventh different one is flat out unbelievable.

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And then when you heat, treat it the way we do into super hard rock will be the curvature gives durability.

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The dual welding gives the durability.

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The beta titanium's that have the structure that's needed, especially when, when, when you've hit it a lot, that it doesn't just snap face and then you create.

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You create all the rigid, you create the, the body rigidity, like we do with all the louvering, with all the raised center section, the bottom section, all of this stuff creates.

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When a ball hits the face of a crank driver, that body does not expand.

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We expand 20% of every other driver.

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So what happens when the ball hits the face of a carbon body?

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It just expands okay.

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That's why I think halloween created jailbreak, because they didn't want the expansion.

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But we don't have expansion, okay, but now they're 360 carbon body that expands a lot.

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So I don't know what jailbreak's for, but the point is this that we're fully cut-faced, we're able to weld.

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Our weld is up on the crown all the way around the tune.

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Underneath there is no weld on the face like you see with the majors they have an insert piece.

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So there's like 12 reasons why I think our drivers are super special.

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But the main ones are cup facing, beta titanium, dual heat, treating body rigidity and creating and bulge and roll your balance points.

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I mean even like something as simple as our dual weight weight ports here.

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Those significantly reduce the curve of the ball because it reduces the angular spin of the ball.

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So when you've been doing it 22 years and you've been, you've been testing in the most severe kyle berkshire world, you learn a lot, yeah, and so we create, we, we sell two clubs, we sell our driver, our drivers and our fairwoods um, and we are launching a new mini driver which I haven't even talked about anybody.

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But oh, it's popular.

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Many drivers are popular right now this is a very cool.

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It's 11 and a half degrees and it's built exactly like our drivers.

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And then, of course, our fairwoods, which are super special because they're all cut, faced with miraging steel.

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They're super thin faced and this happens to be we just launched our two wood, so we make all the different lofts and different fairwoods.

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Yeah, that's something I don't think a lot of people I wasn't even aware.

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I thought you guys were specifically long drivers and and that's what you sell.

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So when I first started chatting with you I was like Holy crap, I had no idea.

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So I want to, I want to bring up the website here real quick and show people, cause they can go on and look at the website and see I mean, there's first off, there's a ton of information on this website, but right here, 3wd+ 3WD, 5wd, 7wd, 9wd, 11wd, 13wd, 15wd that's not just drivers, that's not normal.

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That's not normal.

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But then you also you know the drivers you have.

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You know a variety of drivers as well, so let's get into the drivers.

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What are the different heads that you sell and the unique characteristics of them?

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Okay so, I love golf and I love talking golf.

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I love talking golf, I love talking drivers, I love talking equipment and you know there's just so many opinions of what makes something work or not work.

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It's just really the craziest sport in the world because it's the toughest sport in the world.

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So we, we specialize.

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We specialize in drivers and it allows us to build fairways and mini drivers because of the technology is very, very similar.

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But what we've noticed over the years is and this is really the big switch for Crank about eight years ago was to say, hey, why are older golfers losing so much distance?

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Older golfers losing so much distance, and I mean honestly, it'd be crazy like in five years a guy's gonna do 70, 80 yards of their drive and nobody really knew why.

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And I didn't really know why.

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And and because I always made a long drive version and a playing version.

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The long drive version had a little more bulge and roll for for stability and durability.

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It had a little bit thicker face to roll for stability and durability.

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It had a little bit thicker face because they're swinging at 150 miles an hour.

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And then my playing version had a little less curve in the face but way more curve than everybody else, and then a little bit thinner face because you didn't need the durability, but both were conforming because they both passed the rules by the USGA.

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They just happened to pass the rules by the USGA, they just happen to.

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Well, the problem was that to stay conforming, to stay like the 0.83 core or the 257 CT, if you know what that means, what happens was that once you get under that 110 mile an hour swing speed, you start to lose the trampoline effect of the face of that driver quickly.

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So when guys turn 40, 45, 50, depends on their health or their speed they slowly start to swing down to that 105, 100, 95, 90, 85.

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Once you start losing that, you lose the one thing that's called the extra credit, extra bonus, and that's trampoline effect, the spring of the face of a driver.

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Think about it the face of a driver has the potential, when the ball hits the face, for it to go in and spring off.

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Now, when we had persimmon woods there was no trampoline effect.

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Right, right, the block of wood.

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But with titanium you have the potential of that.

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But the problem is, if you're conforming, you start significantly losing that spring effect at about 105 mile an hour swing speed.

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So when you're 100, 90, 87, my wife swings 62 miles an hour.

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How much spring effect does she get off a normal driver?

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zero, zero right which is unfair to her so her 147 yard drives aren't as fun.

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But if I give her the same spring effect value that john rom enjoys or anyone else that swings 115 to 120 right that 0.83 core, then she hits it 30 yards longer.

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So she's hitting it 27, 175, 180, 185 instead of 150.

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And that's more fun for her and it's also more fair.

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And so we decided to make three different face thicknesses.

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So we make a conforming driver that is on the USGA approved list, which is the Fire Pro, and then we make a Fire X.

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That's a little bit thinner but it's really rated for people that swing 105 to 80.

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And then we make a fire double X.

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That's really thin faced, that's under 80 mile an hour swing speed.

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So we make three drivers the pro, the X and the double X and you can hit whichever one you want based on your swing speed.

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So if you're a super fast swing speed and you hit a really thin face, you'll ruin the driver, so don't buy it yeah, that that was going to be my next question.

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What happens when a high swing speed player swings a thin face like that?

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they hit it 30 to 40 yards shorter and they ruin it, so they waste their money good to know don't waste your money so people, people say well, what you're just trying to make the longest guys hit further.

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Actually, there is no material known to man that can do that.

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Our pro driver, being conforming, is, in my opinion, the longest hitting driver in the world.

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It's the most durable at the swing speeds that.

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Hit it.

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I still swing about 130, which is quite high.

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Hit it.

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I still swing about 130, which is quite high.

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And I know for a fact that if I hit the x, the middle face thickness one, I hit that 30 yards shorter than the pro.

00:21:33.137 --> 00:21:39.271
So it doesn't, really it doesn't because the material just can't handle it so why?

00:21:39.491 --> 00:21:43.240
why is the usga not willing to conform?

00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:52.261
Because that would be what I would think that you know if, if you make a thin face conforming, then the, the guys that swing it hard, are going to take this, this driver, and hit it further.

00:21:52.261 --> 00:21:54.508
But you're saying that that's not the case.

00:21:54.587 --> 00:21:55.109
They don't know.

00:21:55.109 --> 00:21:58.005
That's very well known to man that can do that so what?

00:21:58.105 --> 00:21:58.425
why?

00:21:58.425 --> 00:21:59.828
What's preventing them from?

00:21:59.828 --> 00:22:09.775
Because it sounds like it would make golf more enjoyable for the you know, know, 98% of the golfing world, compared to the 2% of the elite guys.

00:22:09.775 --> 00:22:18.554
If the higher swing speed players aren't getting a benefit out of it, why is the USGA so anti a thinner face?

00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:19.902
I think it's really.

00:22:19.902 --> 00:22:22.108
I think there's a few reasons I've asked this question.

00:22:22.108 --> 00:22:22.790
I mean, think about it.

00:22:22.790 --> 00:22:31.151
We've for us to have 36 World Long Drive Championships and submitted so many drivers and being on their radar that our number one goal is to hit the ball longer.

00:22:31.151 --> 00:22:33.287
We're on their radar period.

00:22:33.287 --> 00:22:35.528
So I've talked with them many, many times about it.

00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:54.953
It's complicated because the advantages that we have doing cut-face forging, because it's all hand-done and it's super specialized beta titanium and I could sit here for hours and talk about it, but the fact is the majors don't ever build what I build.

00:22:54.953 --> 00:22:58.469
They can't because they need 2 million of them.

00:22:58.469 --> 00:23:02.288
Yeah, no one's building 2 million crank heads.

00:23:02.288 --> 00:23:04.815
No one's building 2 million crank heads.

00:23:04.815 --> 00:23:12.173
One of the reasons I think that they've never really evaluated buying us because we build our heads so different than what they do.

00:23:12.173 --> 00:23:29.645
They pour cast molds, they have an insert face that's not even beta titanium and now they're doing 360 bodies that are carbon and you got Tatermade carbon lining the face of a driver that the backing of its titanium.

00:23:29.645 --> 00:23:40.020
Well, clearly the age of titanium is not over if you're still using titanium in the back of the face yeah you know, it's not like it's not a secret they had massive breakage issues.

00:23:40.141 --> 00:23:50.296
So the the fact is there, there's, there's so much more to the situation that we do as far as making our drivers.

00:23:50.296 --> 00:24:00.134
I mean being willing to hand cut face and welding everything by hand is a completely different game plan.

00:24:00.134 --> 00:24:05.109
I mean, to build 100,000 of crank drivers is is really really crazy amount of work.

00:24:06.553 --> 00:24:12.652
So Do you think you guys are, are like singled out and jaded, like we?

00:24:12.652 --> 00:24:22.450
We don't, we don't want to conform this, because then we're going to lose sales and let's address the conformity thing with the USG.

00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:22.113
I kind of got away from it.

00:24:22.113 --> 00:24:28.257
The conformity thing with the USG, I kind of got away from it.

00:24:28.257 --> 00:24:38.766
There's no way in the world the majors want to deal with multiple face thickness the breakage issues that exist already are significant To go into a thinner face.

00:24:38.766 --> 00:24:43.669
Think about it the face of a pro driver the fire pro driver is 2.7 millimeters.

00:24:43.669 --> 00:24:48.372
That is significantly thinner than any major.

00:24:48.372 --> 00:24:52.207
We're talking 3.8 to 4 millimeter thick faces.

00:24:52.207 --> 00:24:53.088
We're 2.7.

00:24:53.088 --> 00:24:53.931
We're both conforming.

00:24:53.971 --> 00:24:54.833
How do we pull that off?

00:24:54.833 --> 00:24:58.028
We pull that off because we have more curve in the face.

00:24:58.028 --> 00:25:03.548
Our metal's significantly harder and we're cup facing, so we have more perimeter support period.

00:25:03.548 --> 00:25:09.784
And we're cup facing, so we have more perimeter support period.

00:25:09.784 --> 00:25:16.163
Our row conforming driver loads better at slower swing speeds than does any driver in the world and it absolutely loads better at faster swing speeds with more durability.

00:25:16.163 --> 00:25:33.497
But if I take that same, that same manufacturing style, and I thin the face from 2.7 to 1.9, which is the X and give it to somebody that swings slower, they get the same spring effect that the faster swing speeds get.

00:25:33.497 --> 00:26:01.065
They don't get more, they get the same And83 now the the only way that you can have that many face thicknesses is to have the type of construction method that we have with the metal we have and they are never going to do that yeah too,

00:26:01.105 --> 00:26:06.438
much work, too much work, and it's just you can't mass produce it as they need.

00:26:06.438 --> 00:26:07.279
Think about it.

00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.771
I mean, how many drivers a year does callaway sell worldwide what I mean?

00:26:11.771 --> 00:26:21.871
Come on, just a few, yeah, and you know, and it's not like any of these companies build bad drivers, it's just that their curve in the face is is too flat.

00:26:21.871 --> 00:26:23.115
They flatten out quicker.

00:26:23.115 --> 00:26:29.132
Their breakage is significant and they're telling you know, 82 year old women, that they're going to gain 20 yards.

00:26:29.132 --> 00:26:29.573
They're not.

00:26:29.573 --> 00:26:35.163
They're they're not getting faster, stronger and younger, they're getting older, weaker and slower.

00:26:35.163 --> 00:26:39.381
And we build, we're built the only driver that that really actually adds distance.

00:26:40.001 --> 00:26:45.894
The hot topic in the driving world starting last year was 10K, 10k, 10k.

00:26:45.894 --> 00:26:48.167
Everybody's going 10K with the MOI.

00:26:48.167 --> 00:27:06.893
So with how rigid your face is and it doesn't flex, is MOI even something you worry about, or do you know that you're going to have the durability, so it's nothing that even needs to be?

00:27:06.933 --> 00:27:07.294
pondered.

00:27:07.294 --> 00:27:08.945
I don't really worry about it.

00:27:08.945 --> 00:27:14.593
What I worry about is two things, three things.

00:27:14.593 --> 00:27:17.690
I worry about control.

00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:19.944
How straight is this driver?

00:27:19.944 --> 00:27:28.067
Okay, I also worry about speed, and I also worry about speed and I also worry about durability.

00:27:28.067 --> 00:27:38.038
And when I can hand somebody a driver, that is probably the great and and we can get into bryson later too.

00:27:38.077 --> 00:28:12.731
But think about what really happened probably the greatest striker of an at speed in the history of professional golf and he he literally takes off of a, takes a head off of a shaft, puts on our head and in 10 days, shoots 58, wins back-to-back tournaments after not winning for three years, wins the us open, leads the masters for two days, finishes second at the pga, his team wins the live championship.

00:28:12.731 --> 00:28:15.618
It completely revolutionized the way he played the game.

00:28:15.618 --> 00:28:17.848
In 12 months period.

00:28:17.848 --> 00:28:20.634
All he did was take a head off and put another head on.

00:28:20.634 --> 00:28:22.097
It's crazy.

00:28:22.097 --> 00:28:29.919
It's crazy, and so nobody can say anything other than the fact that he hits it straighter, with more control.

00:28:29.919 --> 00:28:33.193
I believe he hits it further, but that doesn't even matter.

00:28:33.193 --> 00:28:41.839
We don't even talk about distance with Bryson, because the only thing that really matters is he's going to hit it three, 30, 40, 50, 60 all day long.

00:28:41.859 --> 00:28:44.751
That's just kind of what he does, but is it going to be playable?

00:28:44.751 --> 00:28:47.178
Is he going to be able to control it?

00:28:47.178 --> 00:28:52.116
And so the the bulge and roll all the things that we've done for 22 years.

00:28:52.116 --> 00:28:55.790
That is what has created that opportunity for him.

00:28:55.790 --> 00:29:01.980
And we do make unique clubs and nobody else makes them like we do.

00:29:01.980 --> 00:29:03.570
Absolutely nobody does.

00:29:03.570 --> 00:29:06.211
And so, yeah, are we at the pariah?

00:29:06.211 --> 00:29:13.313
Yeah, we're never going to compete with Calhoun, tatum, tattles or Ping or Cobra or PXG when it comes to advertising dollars.

00:29:13.313 --> 00:29:21.967
But when you can hand somebody a driver and it completely changes the trajectory of their entire career, how do you argue with that.

00:29:21.987 --> 00:29:27.144
Yeah, it's impressive, all right, so I I want to ask you this and share in the driver's face.

00:29:27.144 --> 00:29:34.301
I, I am under the belief that golf has changed from what's not under the belief.

00:29:34.301 --> 00:29:41.242
I believe that the driver used to be the hardest club in the bag to hit and now it's the easiest.

00:29:41.242 --> 00:29:46.971
You, you had like going back to the Persimmons, and even the small, small driver heads back.

00:29:46.971 --> 00:29:53.849
You know, in the in the eighties, where you were required to hit the center of the face in order to hit a good golf shot.

00:29:53.849 --> 00:29:59.069
Now we have, like I said, with the MOI and the drivers and super forgiving.

00:29:59.069 --> 00:30:03.616
You know Scotty Shelfers on TV hitting a 300 yard drive off the toe.

00:30:03.616 --> 00:30:11.048
Um, I, I think that is one of the things that is hurting golf.

00:30:11.048 --> 00:30:12.472
Is these guys just getting up there wildly throwing?

00:30:12.472 --> 00:30:14.640
I mean, don't get me wrong, they are very talented.

00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:20.491
You know you don't become an elite professional golfer because you're not talented, but they're the.

00:30:20.551 --> 00:30:23.609
The risk off the t it's, it's not.

00:30:23.609 --> 00:30:29.970
It's not affecting these guys, they just get up there, they bomb it down there because those drivers are so easy to hit.

00:30:29.970 --> 00:30:34.138
Now is am I right with that and thinking that I mean I?

00:30:34.204 --> 00:30:35.347
don't think you're right at all.

00:30:35.347 --> 00:30:38.595
Matter of fact, are they easier to hit?

00:30:38.595 --> 00:30:39.477
But think about this.

00:30:39.477 --> 00:30:41.863
I mean I I traveled a lot last year.

00:30:41.863 --> 00:30:44.228
I went to most of all the events with bryson.

00:30:44.228 --> 00:30:50.159
I'm watching every one of these guys ripping balls into houses.

00:30:50.159 --> 00:30:52.368
Come on, they struggle.

00:30:52.368 --> 00:30:59.667
Cam smith, one of the greatest golfers of all time, struggled with his driver so bad last year.

00:30:59.708 --> 00:31:04.273
I just watched, watched it say, oh my gosh, this guy be winning every freaking tournament if he could a fairway.

00:31:04.273 --> 00:31:06.813
So to say that everyone's hitting.

00:31:06.813 --> 00:31:12.897
I've watched John Rom balls into freaking no man's land.

00:31:12.897 --> 00:31:17.815
I'm like, oh my God, my driver doesn't even curve that much to do that.

00:31:17.815 --> 00:31:25.996
I know I'm not trying to be super controversial, but I'm saying the flat of the face, the more the curve, and that's just the way that it works.

00:31:25.996 --> 00:31:30.713
You got to have more bowls and roll to control these absolute.

00:31:30.713 --> 00:31:35.209
When the ball starts curving, it doesn't stop curving if you're having a flat face.

00:31:35.209 --> 00:31:46.217
And that's really why Bryson loves what we do and that's why why, even like he's trying to make his own driver now with LA golf that they're trying to put into play everything that crank is.

00:31:46.217 --> 00:31:47.489
That's the absolute truth.

00:31:47.489 --> 00:31:55.328
So and so if you you say that everybody's hitting so much easier, the driver is so much straighter.

00:31:55.328 --> 00:31:57.134
I don't know that.

00:31:57.134 --> 00:31:57.736
I see that.

00:31:58.405 --> 00:32:01.414
Well, I wouldn't say straighter, I would say more forgiving.

00:32:02.945 --> 00:32:04.311
Straighter is forgiving, isn't it?

00:32:04.684 --> 00:32:20.505
Well, no, I'm talking like if a toe strike or a heel strike would normally send it 30 yards off the fairway and now it's only sending it 10, because it's more forgiving these guys when they get up there and they have that shot, because it's more forgiving.

00:32:21.788 --> 00:32:48.789
These guys, when they get up there and they have that shot, I don't think the pure ball striker is being rewarded, because now you have guys that maybe don't have that talent of scoring up the face and hitting it in the center every time are getting an advantage over those pure ball strikers, and I would like to see that aspect of the game get come, come, dialed back a little bit.

00:32:48.789 --> 00:32:54.173
Everybody is going nuts about distance and oh, let's make the masters 8,000 yards and and.

00:32:54.173 --> 00:33:03.685
But you, I love seeing the short courses, like Harbor town, where you know it's, it's an accurate tee shot is required to get around that golf course.

00:33:03.685 --> 00:33:10.989
And uh, you know you can't just go go blast at three, 30 and and hope to get, you know, put up a good score.

00:33:12.192 --> 00:33:13.957
It's just I don't know it's, it's a different era.

00:33:13.957 --> 00:33:17.570
It's a different era but I don't think it's as dramatic as what people think.

00:33:17.570 --> 00:33:20.737
I mean I think there's there's great risk reward.

00:33:20.737 --> 00:33:25.384
What people think I mean I think there's great risk-reward to distance hitting.

00:33:25.384 --> 00:33:26.967
I know when we were in Mayakoba with Liv last year.

00:33:26.967 --> 00:33:28.407
I mean you talk about anxiety.

00:33:28.407 --> 00:33:39.480
You hit a ball anywhere, right, it's in the jungle Like these courses can control driver performance so easily.

00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:46.134
If you really want to control how far a person hits the ball, put in transitions, use the mower.

00:33:46.134 --> 00:33:47.981
There's so many different ways.

00:33:47.981 --> 00:33:49.708
I'm saying some of these courses are wide open.

00:33:49.708 --> 00:33:52.496
I mean like 35 under in hawaii, I mean recently.

00:33:52.496 --> 00:33:54.000
I mean really.

00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:02.645
I mean, yeah, you want to set up a wide open space that there's virtually no stress and there's no fear and just rip and go and go.

00:34:02.645 --> 00:34:04.451
You know kind of thing you're going to get.

00:34:05.292 --> 00:34:07.807
But I, I'm just not a big proponent of changing the ball.

00:34:07.807 --> 00:34:17.858
I'm not a big proponent, I don't believe that there's any spring effect value known to man that should, that should limit the spring effect of a driver face.

00:34:17.858 --> 00:34:23.427
Limit the spring effect of a driver face.

00:34:23.427 --> 00:34:23.688
Um, I'm just.

00:34:23.688 --> 00:34:31.528
I believe that you should use the mower, your architecture, because there's some of these short courses are magical, some of the long courses are brutal.

00:34:31.528 --> 00:34:39.110
You know what playing all of them, we don't want the same guy winning every freaking tournament man, and they can control.

00:34:39.110 --> 00:34:43.769
They can control it by the mower and by the design and by the transitions and all the stuff that's going on.

00:34:43.769 --> 00:34:45.614
I'm just not a big let's.

00:34:45.614 --> 00:34:49.532
Let's play with the ball, that that gives them an advantage.

00:34:49.532 --> 00:34:53.827
But let's change the courses to make sure that it's fair across the board, based on skill set.

00:34:53.907 --> 00:34:55.670
That's it that's, I agree, 100.

00:34:55.670 --> 00:34:57.152
It's so ridiculous.

00:34:57.152 --> 00:35:03.500
How they can, you know, make a penalty shot, penalizing, and they choose not to?

00:35:05.001 --> 00:35:06.670
Yeah Well, I mean, I don't know.

00:35:06.670 --> 00:35:08.913
I think they need to fix the divot rule anyway.

00:35:10.889 --> 00:35:12.193
Oh, let me hear that.

00:35:13.286 --> 00:35:16.976
Well, I mean, if your ball rolls in a divot, you should be able to place it, in my opinion.

00:35:17.585 --> 00:35:22.514
So I firmly agree with you, one hundred percent yeah.

00:35:23.036 --> 00:35:29.092
But we're not, we're not rolling dice yeah, I, I had somebody say this to me, okay.

00:35:29.092 --> 00:35:32.987
So you hit your ball in the middle of the fairway, lens in a divot.

00:35:32.987 --> 00:35:34.692
You're pissed off because you hit a great shot.

00:35:34.692 --> 00:35:37.306
Yeah, all right, and you're penalized, all right.

00:35:37.306 --> 00:35:43.867
So if you hit a ball right off, the course hits a tree, comes back to the middle of the fairway.

00:35:43.867 --> 00:35:47.275
Do you go over and put your ball back where the tree was right?

00:35:47.275 --> 00:35:48.766
No, you take.

00:35:48.766 --> 00:35:49.327
You take it.

00:35:49.327 --> 00:36:00.947
Hey, sometimes you get breaks, sometimes you don't, but I still think you know, fill your divots and and at least have the golf course be as close to what it was for you, for the next person.

00:36:00.947 --> 00:36:02.432
Yeah, I think it's a dumb rule.

00:36:03.106 --> 00:36:10.476
That's probably one of the very few roles I think they should change, but at the end of the day I don't have any say saying that, but I do.

00:36:10.476 --> 00:36:21.277
I do believe that there should be a hard look at the unfairness of of having slow swing speeds forced to hit thick face drivers.

00:36:22.365 --> 00:36:27.974
You know, and when, when we had our, our, our phone conversation last week, that is what really stuck out with me.

00:36:27.974 --> 00:36:31.594
I had never thought of it that way before that.

00:36:31.594 --> 00:36:32.637
You know somebody.

00:36:32.637 --> 00:36:35.777
You know I swing at 97 to 98 miles an hour.

00:36:35.777 --> 00:36:37.164
I was on the track man yesterday.

00:36:37.164 --> 00:36:40.976
That's where I'm at right now, pretty happy with that, which is good.

00:36:40.976 --> 00:36:46.436
But you know my friend Trey and my friend Dan, huge high swing guys.

00:36:46.436 --> 00:36:51.675
They swing it in the 120s and you know the fact that we play a similar head.

00:36:51.675 --> 00:36:53.228
You know design.

00:36:53.228 --> 00:36:55.510
They play a different model but similar head design.

00:36:55.510 --> 00:37:01.010
Yeah, they're getting a huge advantage because they can swing it faster.

00:37:01.010 --> 00:37:03.789
So that really like resonated with me.

00:37:03.789 --> 00:37:10.952
It's like wow, why is it that you know the high swing speed players are the only ones getting benefit from the face?

00:37:10.952 --> 00:37:14.606
It's, it's an interesting, it's a very interesting concept.

00:37:14.907 --> 00:37:29.210
Well, and you know, nobody really thinks about it, I didn't think about it, I never crossed my mind I'd cranked for 15 years and I literally woke up one day and said I make my long drive club a little thicker.

00:37:29.210 --> 00:37:32.788
And then my plane driver they're both conforming.

00:37:32.788 --> 00:37:39.157
I wonder what's going to happen if I made one a little thinner and had my friends swing 90 miles an hour, hit it, see if there's any real difference.

00:37:39.157 --> 00:37:47.373
That's literally how it all happened and I called my factory and I said hey, I want you to make this, I want you to make three different face thicknesses and I'm going to test them.

00:37:47.373 --> 00:37:58.572
So I brought in some of my buddies that are really good golfers that are swinging between 95 and 85 and we did just straight up comparison to a conforming and non-conforming.

00:37:58.572 --> 00:38:06.856
These guys were going calm and 30 yards and I'll be like, okay, well, what's their core?

00:38:06.856 --> 00:38:14.672
So if core, if core is established, which I believe is around 115 mile an hour swing speed I mean the cam test is 109.

00:38:14.672 --> 00:38:22.938
So if they're assuming they use the same ball, because we know balls deject, they they de same ball because we know balls degrade quickly.

00:38:22.938 --> 00:38:34.172
So, like we know in speed testing in the long term that if you really wanted to set a ball speed record, you had to do it within the first three hits, because after that you're losing one mile an hour.

00:38:34.172 --> 00:38:37.313
One mile an hour, the ball degrades, right.

00:38:37.313 --> 00:38:39.612
So are they using the same exact ball?

00:38:39.612 --> 00:38:40.594
And what ball are they using?

00:38:40.594 --> 00:38:42.349
Are they using a 110 compression ball?

00:38:42.349 --> 00:38:43.472
Are they using a 90?

00:38:43.472 --> 00:38:46.177
Are they firing always at 109, which they are?

00:38:46.177 --> 00:38:48.688
But what is core?

00:38:48.688 --> 00:39:02.525
So for you to get 0.83, let's assume that whatever a major manufacturer's driver that's on the conforming list is very close to core rating, even though the usj uses ct now, but it's a different subject.

00:39:02.545 --> 00:39:04.711
But let's say core 0.83.

00:39:04.711 --> 00:39:06.637
You have to swing in.

00:39:06.637 --> 00:39:11.628
In my, in my research, you have to swing at least 115 to get 0.83.

00:39:11.628 --> 00:39:16.414
Okay, so 0.83 at 115, that's great.

00:39:16.414 --> 00:39:17.356
What if you swing 100?

00:39:17.356 --> 00:39:18.878
What's your core?

00:39:18.878 --> 00:39:23.527
Certainly not 0.83, no, not even close, probably 0.73.

00:39:23.527 --> 00:39:26.231
So what if you swing 64 miles an hour?

00:39:26.231 --> 00:39:27.112
What's your core?

00:39:27.112 --> 00:39:29.998
0.2, you can drop whalen.

00:39:29.998 --> 00:39:32.347
What if you swing 130?

00:39:32.347 --> 00:39:36.931
What's your core above 0.83?

00:39:36.931 --> 00:39:38.934
That's fact.

00:39:38.934 --> 00:39:41.036
That is absolutely a fact.

00:39:41.036 --> 00:39:44.721
So who are the only people hitting drivers above court?

00:39:44.721 --> 00:39:56.570

311: An Interview with Lance Reader from Krank Golf

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